Yes, I enjoyed it. I rarely read long substack pieces, if I’m honest, but I stuck with this one. Seneca’s analysis is fascinating. But I wonder if it doesn’t suffer from being too much of a bird’s eye view - too high order. His point that good people would rather suffer than do things that are wrong (because that would be a greater suffering) seems to me very insightful. Still, the lesser suffering - for example being put to death for holding a particular viewpoint - remains a suffering. To claim that this is “good” because it is not worse seems to me a very strange idea of goodness. In truth, I can’t help thinking (from this account) that Seneca is equivocating on the word good: conflating moral goodness with good experience or feeling. And though one might (from a bird’s eye view) assert moral goodness is the only true good, that doesn’t seem to me to answer the original question: when Seneca’s friend asked why do bad things happen to good people, he meant things which are felt and experienced as bad or (for example in the case of extended torture) absolutely bloody awful. (But that’s just my thoughts and I’m no philosopher- thank you for a fascinating read.)
I really enjoyed this essay, especially learning more about Seneca and Stoicism. His thinking on adversity and the power and necessity of it is provocative. And perhaps true!
The beautiful irony is that I read this whole essay to my husband (a very good person! And probably a Stoic himself!) while he’s in the hospital, awaiting long-needed surgery to relieve chronic pain. And just last night, we were discussing (or I was) the possible benefits we might accrue from adverse situations (like health challenges) we would like to avoid. We think we can’t bear them. And yet we do. And we learn that we can.
The political situation is also a powerful illustration of the last part of Seneca’s essay. Perfect timing! Thanks!
"In perfect Stoic fashion, Seneca asserts that it’s actually impossible for genuinely good people to receive long-term unhappiness from misfortune. This is because good people derive most of their happiness from goodness itself, and therefore the very act of being ‘good’ in the face of evil is enough to produce happiness. " - I really believe we choose to be good - to benefit more than harm - and that is what give us pride and satisfaction in our living. Thanks for bringing it together from past centuries.
Meno, Thank you so much for this clear explanation of Seneca's thinking. It does give me comfort reading it, and well as educate me. I have a number of times been confronted by "evil" behavior, and felt I could not let it go unconfronted as a person or persons were suffering. There is always punishment when one does this to the powerful. And the punishment can be brutal. But seeing someone afflicted feel the relief of someone supporting them, is a joy, and seeing my statements repeated, and ultimately an atmosphere of evil being tempered, was rewarding although it took serious suffering first. Blessed are the whistleblowers.
I really felt better for reading this today. Thank you so much.
Slight misconception about Karma in an otherwise excellent essay.
One doesn't always receive the fruits of one's karmas in the same lifetime. But that does not mean they have been successfully avoided.
Yes, I enjoyed it. I rarely read long substack pieces, if I’m honest, but I stuck with this one. Seneca’s analysis is fascinating. But I wonder if it doesn’t suffer from being too much of a bird’s eye view - too high order. His point that good people would rather suffer than do things that are wrong (because that would be a greater suffering) seems to me very insightful. Still, the lesser suffering - for example being put to death for holding a particular viewpoint - remains a suffering. To claim that this is “good” because it is not worse seems to me a very strange idea of goodness. In truth, I can’t help thinking (from this account) that Seneca is equivocating on the word good: conflating moral goodness with good experience or feeling. And though one might (from a bird’s eye view) assert moral goodness is the only true good, that doesn’t seem to me to answer the original question: when Seneca’s friend asked why do bad things happen to good people, he meant things which are felt and experienced as bad or (for example in the case of extended torture) absolutely bloody awful. (But that’s just my thoughts and I’m no philosopher- thank you for a fascinating read.)
Fantastic essay. Subscribed. I study The Mahabharata, and Yudhishtira, the embodiment of Dharma, grapples with this very question again and again.
This is an amazing essay! Thank you for the clarity and deep thought.
I really enjoyed this essay, especially learning more about Seneca and Stoicism. His thinking on adversity and the power and necessity of it is provocative. And perhaps true!
The beautiful irony is that I read this whole essay to my husband (a very good person! And probably a Stoic himself!) while he’s in the hospital, awaiting long-needed surgery to relieve chronic pain. And just last night, we were discussing (or I was) the possible benefits we might accrue from adverse situations (like health challenges) we would like to avoid. We think we can’t bear them. And yet we do. And we learn that we can.
The political situation is also a powerful illustration of the last part of Seneca’s essay. Perfect timing! Thanks!
Brilliant philosophy! I have been asking myself this question. Today I learned. Thank you very much!
"In perfect Stoic fashion, Seneca asserts that it’s actually impossible for genuinely good people to receive long-term unhappiness from misfortune. This is because good people derive most of their happiness from goodness itself, and therefore the very act of being ‘good’ in the face of evil is enough to produce happiness. " - I really believe we choose to be good - to benefit more than harm - and that is what give us pride and satisfaction in our living. Thanks for bringing it together from past centuries.
I particularly appreciate how this essay helps cut through the BS that we are surrounded by. Thanks.
Hi Meno,
Are you still writing essays?
I see no new ones. I miss the education and insights.
Meno, Thank you so much for this clear explanation of Seneca's thinking. It does give me comfort reading it, and well as educate me. I have a number of times been confronted by "evil" behavior, and felt I could not let it go unconfronted as a person or persons were suffering. There is always punishment when one does this to the powerful. And the punishment can be brutal. But seeing someone afflicted feel the relief of someone supporting them, is a joy, and seeing my statements repeated, and ultimately an atmosphere of evil being tempered, was rewarding although it took serious suffering first. Blessed are the whistleblowers.
Very insightful essay🍁